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But that was a big thing for our psyche as an organization, and I think it also was a big thing, although a lot of people probably won't admit it,

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but it was a good thing for the blacks, African Americans, at North Carolina State University because it showed that we could now do something that-.

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We all, although most people probably wouldn't admit it freely, but you kind of looked up to a lot of the white fraternities because they were able to all be together, they had-.

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The one thing about, I mentioned earlier, when you would go to the white fraternities when I came here the first time, part of the reason you did that was to go get a free meal.

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They didn't have a meal plan at NC State when I was here in 1973, so everybody cooked in their room or went to the student center, that type thing, so you were pretty much on your own.

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So if the fraternity offered you over and dinner was part of the bargain it's like, okay; I have no real intentions of joining these guys but I'm hungry.

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I will say everybody that year that was an Alpha was so proud. You could stick your chest out because of that, that we have our own fraternity house.

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In other words, one of the things that came with it is that, okay, being a fraternity - unlike the white fraternities. If the members of Delta Sigma Phi wanted to get together they met at their house.

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If they wanted to do something they met at their house. If they wanted to have a cookout, if they wanted to have a meeting or something, all of that was available.

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We always had to plan somewhere to meet and do those type things, so this gave us a place that we could be proud of

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and we could also meet and do those type things that we would always be a different place hopping around doing before. So it was a sense of pride but it had a practical application also.